From: chatdemon2000@aol.com (Chatdemon2000) Subject: d20/OGF dissenting view Date: 14 Sep 2000 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <20000914061616.28953.00002583@ng-cg1.aol.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd X-Admin: news@aol.com Ok Folks, I finally got curious enough to go read this, and frankly, it made me irate. I'll avoid an unsubstantiated rant and break it down for you: <<>> ---The Open Gaming Foundation is a private organization, and it not managed by or overseen by Wizards of the Coast or any other game publisher. Correspondance about the Foundation, this web site, or the Foundation mailing lists should be directed to: Ryan S. Dancey --- Ok, let me get this straight, Ryan Dancey,Wizards of the Coast's Vice President in charge of roleplaying games , is the organizer of the "open" gaming foundation? Smells like conflict of interest to me. But wait, perhaps Ryan and WotC are truly being selfless martyrs of the gaming industry and trying to help out the little guys. Think so? Read on, as Ryan explains in his own words: <<>> ---In about twenty years ago, a guy named Richard Stallman was a grad student at MIT. During his time there, he participated in a community of software developers who shared code between themselves and were at the cutting edge of computer programming. When those people started to leave the university and go into private enterprise, they stopped being willing to share their code, because the standard corporate philosophy is to keep secrets rather than share them. Stallman thought that was a mistake. He feels that the best way to get good software is to let everyone see the source code, and be able to make changes to that code if they think the changes necessary. Stallman in fact considers this a "natural right," up there with the right to free speech, the right to assemble, and the right to practice a religion. He's a little on the extreme side, but he has been proven (at least partially) correct. Stallman left MIT and started an organization called GNU. Old-school programmers are a funny bunch, and one thing they like are nonsense acronyms that are self-referencing. "GNU" means "GNU's Not Unix." Trust me, if you don't get the joke, you're not missing anything. The GNU project was designed to create a completely "free" version of Unix, and all the tools and utilities that a person would need to use a computer without having to use any "closed" or proprietary software. To facilitate that effort, Stallman authored a document called the GNU General Public License (known as the GPL). The GPL is the first use of a novel legal concept which has come to be known as the "copyleft." A "copyright" is a way of restricting the rights of others to use a given work. A "copyleft" is a way of forcing everyone to allow anyone to use a given work pretty much any way they want to, and not be able to restrict those rights. The GPL is the foundation of our ongoing attempt to create a similar license for gaming, currently known as the Open Gaming License. Fast forward a decade to an undergraduate Finnish computer programmer named Linus Torvalds. Torvalds creates a small computer operating system called "Linux" and releases it to the public via the GPL. Using his original code as a base, thousands of programmers all over the world begin to extend and develop the system, and in a few short years, it becomes as capable, robust, stable and usable as the best Unix versions. In fact, Linux takes a larger share of the worldwide server market share than Windows NT, despite everything Microsoft does to combat it. Surrounding the creation and development of Linux itself, a whole community of programs thrives under the loose umbrella of "Open Source." Linux drew that community the attention of a lot of really bright people who have delved into the phenomenon and come up on the other side shouting "Eureka!" It turns out, that for many types of problems, "Open Source" development tends, on the whole, to be a better process than traditional, closed source development. The curious should look at www.gnu.org, www.opensource.org, and should seek out Eric Raymond's essay "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" via a lookup on any capable search engine. There is now a new, viable model for creating complex systems, using standardized protocols and interfaces, that are shared by many people, with many independent sub-components that have to work together. Like roleplaying games. That brings us to Open Gaming, and why we're pursuing this initiative inside Wizards and outside to the larger community of game publishers. --- Comparing OGF/D20 to linux? Give me a break, let me cite the KEY difference... <<>> ---3.1.1. No Publication distributed under the terms of this License may contain information on creating characters compatible with the D20 System Reference Document v0.0. 3.1.2. No Publication distributed under the terms of this License may contain information explaining the effects on characters of earning experience or advancing in "level" as that term is defined in the D20 System Reference Document v0.0. 3.1.3. The document known as the D20 System Reference Document v0.0 contains a section titled "Restricted Terms and Definitions". You may not use any term described in that section in any way other than as described in that section in a Publication covered by this License. If the D20 System Reference Document is revised by Wizards of the Coast, you may use any version of the "Restricted Terms and Definitions" section of any version of the D20 System Reference Document issued by Wizards of the Coast.--- OK, this is like Linus Torvald creating Linux, but then saying "hey, you can use linux, and do whatever you want with it, but you cant make your OS bootable. You have to refer them to a special boot program, which I have for sale. Also, you cant provide users with any way to improve their boot setup, that is also covered in my LinuxBoot software package. I ask you, what good is the d20 license if I can't include character generation or advancement in my games? I'm basically making supplements for dnd/star wars, but WAIT, I cant use any dnd/star wars terms, thats forbidden as well. If I want my customers to be able to actually use my game, they have to buy dnd or star wars. Want proof? No problem, same document: ---3.3.1. You may place a notice in the Publication that reads: "Requires the use of the Dungeons & Dragons(R) Player's Handbook, Third Edition, published by Wizards of the Coast(R)." If typography permits, the "(R)" indicia should be converted to the recognized "circle R" character.--- Saying that OGF and Linux have the same foundation is not only a ludicrous lie, it is a blatant insult to Mr. Torvald's ideals. He wants no share of your profits, wotc does, through product referral. All linux demands is that you distribute the source code with your mods, wotc says you have to refer users to their system to even be able to USE yours. He continues to validate my claims, check this out. <<>> ---In other words, the more money other companies spend on their games, the more D&D sales are eventually made. Now, there are clearly issues of efficiency -- not every dollar input to the market results in a dollar output in D&D sales; and there is a substantial time lag between input and output; and a certain amount of people are diverted from D&D to other games never to return. However, we believe very strongly that the net effect of the competition in the RPG genre is positive for D&D. --- so, he wants more companies making games, well, sort of. ---The downside here is that I believe that one of the reasons that the RPG as a category has declined so much from the early 90s relates to the proliferation of systems. Every one of those different game systems creates a "bubble" of market inefficiency; the cumulative effect of all those bubbles has proven to be a massive downsizing of the marketplace. I have to note, highlight, and reiterate: The problem is not competitive >product<, the problem is competitive >systems<. I am very much for competition and for a lot of interesting and cool products.--- So basically, you're all for more games as long as you get a share of the profits? ---We make more revenue and more profit from our core rulebooks than any other part of our product lines. In a sense, every other RPG product we sell other than the core rulebooks is a giant, self-financing marketing program to drive sales of those core books. At an extreme view, you could say that the core >book< of the PHB is the focus of all this activity, and in fact, the PHB is the #1 best selling, and most profitable RPG product Wizards of the Coast makes year in and year out. --- So, by forcing other companies games to require you're game, you make all the money and drive anyone who doesnt participate in the OGF out of business? ---The logical conclusion says that reducing the "cost" to other people to publishing and supporting the core D&D game to zero should eventually drive support for all other game systems to the lowest level possible in the market, create customer resistance to the introduction of new systems, and the result of all that "support" redirected to the D&D game will be to steadily increase the number of people who play D&D--- Hmm, just as I thought. Hey folks, they're his own words, I cited my sources...To sum it up: ---The D20 System Trademark License restricts you from creating a work that explains how to create characters, and how to apply the effects of experience to those characters. To be blunt, it means you can't take the D20 stuff and publish a complete roleplaying game to compete with the D&D Player's Handbook.--- ---people will have to buy a fantasy-themed D&D player's handbook in order to get all the character creation and development material. This may or may not prove to be a problem. I'm hoping that it is not. I'd love to see you sell my PHBs to your Wild West customers! --- Ok, enough about Dancey's motives, I think it's clear he isn't being honest, or is completely self deluding himself with his own hype. On to the sovereignity of OGF from WotC: <<>> ---The Open Gaming Foundation is a private organization, and it not managed by or overseen by Wizards of the Coast or any other game publisher.--- Hey, cool, sounds good, right? Read on. <<>> ---THIS IS A DRAFT VERSION OF THE LICENSE FOR COMMENT AND CRITIQUE IT CANNOT BE USED AT THIS TIME. A NOTICE WILL APPEAR ON THIS WEB SITE WHEN THE LICENSE IS APPROVED FOR GENERAL USE. OPEN GAME LICENSE Version 1.0 The following text is the property of Wizards of the Coast, Inc. and is Copyright 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc ("Wizards"). All Rights Reserved. No permission is granted to reprint or redistribute this text in any media without the prior written consent of the Copyright Holder. --- ---15. COPYRIGHT NOTICE Open Game License v 1.0 Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.--- <<>> ---These pages contain a clearinghouse for information about the D20 System, and the D20 System Trademark License. At this time, none of the materials on these pages are available for public use. You are free to download and examine these materials for your own personal use, but they have not yet been released for public distribution. All of these materials are copyright 2000 by Wizards of the Coast.--- ---The D20 System Reference Doucument (D20SRD) is an Open Game. It is presented to the public using the terms of the Open Gaming License.--- <<>> ---The following text is Copyright (C) 1999 Wizards of the Coast. All Rights Reserved. No permission is granted to reprint or redistribute this text in any media without the prior written consent of the Copyright Holder. To request such permission, please contact ryand@frpg.com (Ryan Dancey). D20 SYSTEM TRADEMARK LICENSE Version 0.4--- So, WotC isn't involved, but they own the rights to all the legal documents? I'm no lawyer, but I smell deception. Look folks, Ryan said it himself, the d20 system is nothing but a ploy to get more customers for dnd and try to drive their competitors out of business. Please, use your voice, don't let WotC monopolize the industry. JSN (just say no) to OGF!! personal replies please use : chatdemon2000@yahoo.com icq#: 14943385